Almost every speaker at the Democratic and Republican conventions says, at some point in their speech, “God Bless America”. What does this mean?
I’ll set aside the issue of the existence of this supernatural being for this blog, but I want to hear from people who accept it. What do they mean?
Do they believe that God interferes in the daily happenings in the world?
Are they asking God to do something differently from what he already planned to do? Do they believe that God listens to people, as if running an election, and if enough people ask him to “bless” the country, then he might interfere with the “natural” course of events?
Will he steer a hurricane if enough people pray for that, but not if they don’t? Let someone survive an illness or not, based on prayers received? Influence a basketball game?
What if nobody asks God to bless America? Will he “withdraw his blessing”, thereby causing something bad to happen?
Or is it just empty agreement between believers, saying “I believe in God, just like you.”
I remember a song by the Doors (not an ideal spiritual leader, of course, but anyway…) where Morrison said, “When I was back there in Seminary school there was a man who put forth the proposition that you can petition the Lord with Prayer. YOU CAN NOT PETITION THE LORD WITH PRAYER!!!”
Can you?
11 responses so far ↓
1 Jocelyn // Sep 3, 2008 at 5:47 am
I think it would be very interesting to have political and religious conversations with you. We seem to have a lot of the same questions.
2 Don // Sep 3, 2008 at 2:40 pm
No takers so far?
3 Donna // Sep 3, 2008 at 5:25 pm
I’ll respond. Give me some time.
4 Don // Sep 3, 2008 at 8:40 pm
Can God make a boulder so large that he can’t lift it?
5 Donna // Sep 5, 2008 at 7:22 pm
Wow, I’ve been praying for an opportunity to share some of my thoughts about this subject. Has God answered my prayers? Perhaps…
This is something I have pondered for years and years. And here’s what I have come to believe. Prayer is not for changing the mind of God, but for changing the heart of the petitioner. And in situations where God might intervene, I find that he is much more concerned with spiritual matters than physical or natural ones.
God will never intervene in anything that would limit any man’s free will. That’s why we have terrorism, murders, and so much evil in the world. Will he protect his own people from that evil? I think we have undeniable proof that he will not. At least not here on earth. But if our mindset is spiritual, the battle is already won. We are protected in that regard. My eternity can never been taken away from me by any form of evil. Evil will be destroyed. And when evil does impact my earthly life, God’s Spirit comforts me.
Sometimes the conditions for receiving spiritual power lie with our own intentions and submitting our own free will. I’ll give you an example of how I discovered this is true. Several years ago I kept falling into a certain sin. Every time it happened, I asked God to help me not do that again. But inevitably, I did it again. Did God fail my prayer? I kept pondering that, and one day, I realized I was putting the responsibility solely on God to keep me from doing that. If I committed the sin again, it was partly God’s fault. So then, as hard as it was to do, I TOLD God I wouldn’t do that sin again. I made a promise to him. And you know what? I have not done that sin again, and I never will. My prayer worked. Did it change God’s will or intentions? No. It changed mine.
In the last couple of decades, my prayer life has significantly transitioned from asking God for things to simply telling him that I trust him and letting him do his will. About your question regarding healing an illness. That’s been a tough one for me, especially in light of Lauren’s disability. Thousands of people around the world have prayed that Lauren would get better. Has he answered those prayers? Not in the way most people hoped. Not in complete healing for her. Does he ever intervene in health or medical issues? I really don’t know. But I have learned to give my requests to him and let him be God. I put my faith in the spiritual and eternal perspective rather than base it on any scientific intervention or miracles he might or might not perform. I’m sure there are many Christians who may disagree with me, but my test for a miracle has become “is it powerful enough to make Daryl believe?” I think if someone’s infected leg got better shortly after someone prayed, you probably wouldn’t fall on your face before God. But I bet if someone’s leg was amputated and then it suddenly reappeared after someone prayed, you’d have to take a closer look. Too bad those kinds of miracles don’t happen anymore.
So your original question … what does “God Bless America” really mean? There is a scripture that says “if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.” I think that when America blesses God, then he will bless America.
I’m afraid he won’t intervene in basketball games. Sorry!
P.S. Don, in answer to your question… God has the power to limit his own power, so yes he could make a boulder that he could then limit his own ability to lift. If he wanted to for some ridiculous reason.
6 Daryl // Sep 6, 2008 at 8:38 pm
Thank you Donna, for that thoughtful response. I’m not sure that most believers have thought things out to this depth.
So specifically, when (if) you say “God bless America”, you are not asking God to guide our leaders or change anything, except you might be hoping to change peoples attitudes or beliefs (including your own) by your example, would that be fair?
Speaking of my positions; You’re right; it would take a real miracle for me to consider that the world is not all natural. And statistical aberrations are not miracles — 1 person healing after being given a 1-in-a-million chance is not a miracle — with many millions of people sick, the 1-in-a-million is going to come up many times. People tend to ignore the times that prayers seem to not be answered, and focus on the positive results.
A leg instantly growing back would raise some questions, but then David Copperfield can make some pretty amazing things seem to happen, so even in that case I would be looking for alternate, natural causes as the most likely.
The more we learn about the world, the more clear it is that things happen from natural causes. The farther back we push the fog of ignorance, the farther back believers have to retreat. People used to believe that every time it rained God put a rainbow in the sky. Now we know that it is a result of simple optics. Perhaps that’s why “those kind of miracles don’t happen any more.”
A question for you: If you saw someone pray to Zeus, and a leg grew back, would you abandon Christianity and begin worshiping Greek gods? Or would you suspect trickery or alternate explanations? What level of miracle would it take for you to change your world view?
7 Mom // Sep 7, 2008 at 11:19 pm
I don’t want to be involved in this discussion in any way, since it will be very soon (in terms of how long this earth has been turning), that I shall leave this earthly body.
I just wanted to make one correction. as I understand it. After the flood, God made a covenant with the people that when they saw a rainbow, they should remember his promise that he would never again flood the entire earth.
8 Daryl // Sep 8, 2008 at 10:30 am
Mom,
Good catch. Although it does say, in Genesis 9:13, “I have set my bow in the cloud” which sounds like it was being done then as a part of establishing the covenant.
But I guess you could interpret it to mean that it had been set during creation and was now being re-interpreted as a covenant.
9 Donna // Sep 8, 2008 at 9:40 pm
First, a quick note about the rainbow. Since the great flood is the first biblical record we have of any rain, it stand to reason it’s the first time there was a rainbow. Also, the rainbow was to remind God of the covenant, not to remind us of it.
Secondly, I think you recapped my position pretty accurately. I do pray that God would guide our leaders and our nation to be more godly, but since we all have free will, he will only guide those who submit to him. So I pray for those godly leaders (and all believers) to have more influence over our nation and to honor God in whatever they do.
I can’t accept the David Copperfield theory, because that would be the “illusion” of an amputated leg and the “illusion” of its reappearance. However, in Exodus, when God’s prophets performed some miracles, Pharaoh’s sorcerers performed the same ones. In the end, it’s the ultimate miracle that only God can perform: raising someone from the dead. If Dad (or Grandpa) suddenly walked in the room and said “Donna, it’s Zeus who is God, not YAHWEH!” then I’d have to take a closer look at Zeus. There is a passage in scripture about a man who died and went to Purgatory. He begged God to send someone back to earth to tell his brothers that they were wrong and YAHWEH is God. God told him his brothers have all the evidence they need. If they don’t believe the prophets, they won’t believe someone who comes back from the dead.
Scripture also tells us “those kinds of miracles don’t happen anymore” because we now have the evidence we need to see that God does exist. When Jesus was here, he performed miracles to prove his deity. After he fulfilled all the prophecies about himself, was killed and raised from the dead, documentation was written and we now have God’s Word. We also have the Holy Spirit to confirm that in us.
Let’s consider this: Seeing versus believing. Until you see evidence God exists you won’t believe. I believe and then see evidence that God exists. To you, seeing is believing. To me, believing is seeing. Mind over matter, you say? An atheist will never know. Because you can’t truly comprehend the Holy Spirit unless you’ve experienced him.
Some men try to prove God exists. Some men try to prove he doesn’t. Neither is 100% successful (at least to the opposer’s satisfaction), and both positions require some element of faith. My faith is too weak to accept that every single minute detail of our universe’s sustenance is coincidental. And where did life originally come from? How could electrical impulses and chemical reactions make us reason and love and care like we do? But I sometimes ponder this: what if I’m wrong and there really is no God and all my beliefs do turn out to be fantasies? What is my loss? My life has been very good living under this fantasy. I don’t think I’ve sacrificed anything really valuable or resisted doing anything I really wanted to do because I live my life believing in an eternal God. It’s really a great life. And when I die, if I’m wrong, I haven’t really lost anything other than my beliefs. But what if I’m right and you’re wrong? What have you lost? What if you die and find out there really is a God? What if you really did have to look for him and choose him? You’ve lived a life without God, and then face an eternity without him.
Let me ask you this. Do you think this would be a better world if no one believed in God?
10 Daryl // Sep 10, 2008 at 5:09 pm
The discussion of “What is my loss if I’m wrong?” is “Pascal’s Wager”, first proposed by Blaise Pascal in the 1600s. If I believe and I’m wrong, little is lost, and if I’m right much is gained. If I don’t believe and I’m wrong, much is lost, and if I’m right little is gained.
There are two fatal flaws in the argument. First, you could just as easily substitute “Allah and Mohamed” for “Jehovah and Jesus” and the argument is unchanged. Or you could substitute the forest god of an Amazon Indian tribe, or beneficent aliens or Leprechauns, etc.
But the more important major flaw is that belief is not something you change based on a calculation. Those who believe because it seems safer don’t really believe. If the sky looks blue to you, no amount of trying is going to change that belief. You can close your eyes and tell yourself “It’s green, I believe it’s green.”, but it’s a charade. Likewise I can’t pretend to believe in gods, demons, angels and devils when all the evidence I see in the world tells me it’s not true.
It’s impossible to prove God doesn’t exist. As a famous parallel example, it’s impossible to prove that there isn’t a porcelain teapot orbiting between Mars and Jupiter. But the lack of evidence means we should go on with our lives assuming he doesn’t, until and unless there is significant evidence. Mystery and my inability to understand all the complexities of a nearly infinite universe doesn’t mean that the writings of Bronze-age priests and poets therefore must hold the answer. There is no more evidence for Jehovah than there is for Allah, or the Amazon forest god or beneficent aliens or leprechauns.
Sure, life is a mystery, and we’re just beginning to understand how consciousness arises from inanimate matter. But there’s no question in my mind that it does. As a familiar example, look at what happened to Dad when his brain started to decay. Our personality and who we are is tied completely to the function of the “electrical impulses and chemical reactions” in our nervous system. When those are impaired, our mental activities are impaired. When those stop happening, we cease to exist.
Reading some of the statements you made above astound me, such as the suggestion that the Biblical flood was the first time it ever rained. Or that Pharaoh’s sorcerers could really perform miracles. We really live in different worlds.
So do I think this would be a better world if no one believed in God? Yes, in general much better. This is not to say that there are no benefits from religion. For some simple-minded people (I’m not talking about you here!) it’s the only reason not to murder or steal. It’s the inspiration for many beautiful works of art. It forms a close social bond between communities of people who share their beliefs and worship together.
But on the other hand, if no one believed in God there would be no religious wars, no inquisition, no witch-burnings, no 9/11, no Al Queda, no Taliban, no fake faith healers cheating people of their money. Even Hitler pushed his anti-Semitic pogroms by calling Jews “Christ Killers”. Many people will do terrible things on their own, but it usually takes the belief that a divinity is behind them to compel whole communities to commit mass murder.
Are atheists less moral? The percentage of atheists in prison is much lower than in the general population. If you compare how religious a society is to the crime rate, they generally rise together. The northern European countries generally have the highest percent of atheists, often higher than 50%, and also have the lowest crime rates. The US is the most religious developed country in the world, and has the highest crime rate among those same developed countries.
None of this proves cause and effect, but it pretty effectively disproves the contrary contention that religion reduces crime.
Belief in gods and an afterlife promotes the idea that it doesn’t matter what happens in this world, it’s the next that counts. We can destroy the environment, subjugate the world to our whim and convenience, because God gave it to us to use, and the next world is all that matters. On the other hand, if you know that this is all there is, and this world is all your kids and grandchildren will have, you will be more inclined to take care of it.
Yes, I think this would be a better world if no one believed in God.
11 Daryl // Oct 1, 2008 at 5:42 pm
There was an anonymous comment submitted to this posting. I’m not going to approve it partly because it’s anonymous, partly because it’s too long, and partly because it doesn’t have anything new to add.
The writer mainly argues that I need to set aside my pride and try to believe, his or her case supported by lots of quotes from Hebrew mythology. He/she seems sincere, but imagine how you feel when you read 9/11 conspiracy theories, or arguments that the earth is flat; that’s how it reads to me. You can spend a lot of time studying each argument and pointing out the illogic and irrelevance, or you can just say “this person’s world view differs so far from mine that it’s impossible to find any common ground”, and just get on with your life.